Warsaw, 23 May 1945. Investigating Judge Halina Wereńko, delegated to the Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes, interviewed the person named below as a witness. Having advised the witness of the criminal liability for making false declarations and of the significance of the oath, the judge swore the witness, who then testified as follows:

Name and surname Władysław Kaczmarski
Names of parents Franciszek Głąb and Anna née Kaczmarska
Date of birth 6 December 1903, Użejowice estate, Przeworsk district
Occupation actor at the Polish Army Theater in Łódź
Education Faculty of History
Place of residence Łódź, 1 Maja Street 6
Religious affiliation Roman Catholic
Criminal record none

In mid-July 1943, I don’t remember the exact date, in a football field in Konstancin, next to Pomianowski’s villa, at 5:00 p.m., German police from Fischer’s security battalion commanded by Oberleitnant Voss, whose first name I don’t know, rounded up those playing football and the spectators. The police surrounded and blocked the stadium, after which they captured mostly young people, loading them into several cars. Shooting started as people tried to escape, I heard that there were two deaths.

I don’t know the names of those killed.

I was at the riverside at the time. Hearing shots, I went home, on the way I learned about the course the round-up had taken.

At the end of July or at the beginning of August 1943, I don’t remember the exact date, I learned from those fleeing the site of the round-up that at 5:00 p.m. by the lakeside, next to the railway track towards Konstancin, German police from Fischer’s security battalion organized a round-up during the peak swimming hour. I was told that 10 or 15 carloads of people were taken away. There was a shoot-out as people tried to escape during the round-up, in which several people were wounded.

I don’t know the surnames. Neither do I know how many people were arrested in both round-ups.

Senior lieutenant Voss directed the round-up.

I have to underline that Fischer’s security police battalion was stationed in Konstancin, where Fischer would sometimes come to Wertheim’s villa in summertime.

In 1940, the villa at Piasta Street 19 in Konstancin, belonging to the Kiełbasiński family, my relatives, was requisitioned by the Germans. In 1943, a German lived there, Szeffer, an official from the prices control authority, who sent Kiełbasiński notice that they had to pay taxes for the house and that one room on the first floor was reserved for them. In the summer of 1943, from June onwards, I would come and stay in that room on Saturdays and Sundays.

In late June, I don’t remember the date, Szeffer invited me over to listen to the radio from London. Szeffer went out and I listened to the radio in his flat. Because of this, I invited a few friends the following Sunday and we listened to English radio in Szeffer’s room. All of a sudden we heard steps on the stairs and switched the radio to a German channel, just as Szeffer came into the room with two policemen. I have to remark that I belonged to the Polish People’s Army, as did my friends present there: Bogdan Kurniak (a resident of Kutno, Krakowskie Przedmieście Street 26), and miller [?] Franciszek Kust, head of the Peasant Self-Help for Krakow province. All three of us, coming to Konstancin, wanted to do a bit of reconnaissance and then assassinate Fischer. When Szeffer and the two policemen entered as we were listening to the radio, one of them reached for his weapon, while the other – Oberleitnant Voss, as it turned out – calmed him down. We stood for a while and, unstopped by anyone, went back to our room. Voss came to us after an hour, saying that he would draw no consequences from the fact that we had listened to the radio.

In July 1943, after the round-up at the football field, I met Voss in the garden one evening and told him: “What did you do [that for] today?” He replied: “why do the Poles provoke Fischer in broad daylight? He was coming back from Warsaw by car and saw the [football] match, after which he personally ordered me by phone to disperse the bandits,” he swung his hand and said: “Alles quatz.” At that, our conversation ended.

On a certain Sunday in July or at the beginning of August 1943, Szeffer told me that Fischer had again personally ordered Voss to organize a round-up of Poles swimming in the lake near Konstancin. Szeffer was tipsy when he said this.

Read out.